FPSBANANA > Forum > STEAM - Steam > Other/Misc

October 2008 award winners are in...

Forum > STEAM - Steam > Other/Misc > Copy "rights"

Search Threads: Advanced

Copy "rights" An interesting look into the world of copyrighting... protecting your work, and allowing others to use it.
Posted 5 months ago, last post 5 months ago by UnitedAdmins WT
UnitedAdmins WT . Bananite	18 Replies 1,176 Views 0 Favorites Riveting Class (?)	Closed
Hi, Some of you may remember me and other people from UA, from way back when UA was still alive, and cheating-Death / Clanmod, Statsme, etc.. where among the top 10 popular software for HL, CS, and more. I'm not here in a UA capacity today, instead, I am here to talk about copyright theft. Not too long ago, a friend of mine felt compelled to remove some of his stuff from FPSB, not due to the nature of it's content, but due to a last minute disagreement, from the original author. My friend did some skinning, and even though the original author gave permission, apparently, this situation took a change for the bad, when the original author was not best pleased after my friend posted the work here for everyone to enjoy. I am vastly aware of the importance that copyright has on a persons work, and would be the first to complain of someone STOLE my work, and claimed it as their own, but would like to point in this instance, that my friend obtained permission, and even credited the original author, with a link to their website, and more. The UK Government claims this as their definition of automatic UK copyright. http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy/c-claim/c-auto.htm I would however, like to point out the following... Copying someone elses work ALSO classes as copyright. -- How your browser works... You might be asking, why has WT added this... read on, to find out more. When you visit the internet, you type in a web address, or click a link, and the internet finds it for you, automatically... In technical terms however... your browser makes a request to the website server, to send you a page... that page then gets COPIED to your computer, and "cached". The browser then USES the cached page, to display it into your browser. You have therefore COPIED and USED that page ... WITHOUT PERMISSION !. effectively committing an act of copyright theft. Before I stand here, and accuse EVERYONE HERE (except the person who created this site) of breaking the copyright law, including me, I would appreciate it, if you consider the people who put all the work into what goes into this site, including the original author, AND anyone who copies their work with permission, and full credits. Please discuss.

Bananite

	. Yes, you may buy my uber, just post. \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
I'm glad as long as no one takes credit for work I have done, notifies me before sharing it, and as long as it clearly says I'm the original creator.

	. Banned \| Y2M	x 7
	Posted 5 months ago
Wow, this is probably the only thread that really deserved a 10/10 instead of me just clicking on it to post inside. I enjoyed reading it, the correct grammar, the strong sentence structure, thanks for the blue balls. I'll enjoy watching where this thread ends up. And why the views but no posts? This is an actual thread with the actual potential for a legit discussion and the members pass by like nothing is here, ladies and gents this is better than some of the shit forum games that are thought up on a bored Monday afternoon after a pre-pubescent blows a load all over his computer screen in under 5 goddamn minutes. So take the time and write a few sentences because the author clearly put more thought, time and effort into this thread than the author's of these other shit threads that you spend hours in discussing who can take the biggest shit or which is better; the Xbox 360 or PS3 that just turns into a bunch of fan-boys yelling at each-other over plastic and visuals, and the discussion ends with everyone having the same fucking opinion and no knowledge gained, for fuck's sake. Fucking discuss. Sincerely, Your goddamn wet-dream Mr. Colt
Banned
	Be[NZ]ine. . welcome to NZ \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
When you release a site into the internet dont you agree that people are going to be viewing it and caching it? i mean you have to expect that to happen dont you?
welcome to NZ
	Shadowex3 . Dreamers, Shapers, Singers and Makers \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Taking bets on how long before this turns into a flamewar over people's opinions of UA.
Dreamers, Shapers, Singers and Makers
	Judo . 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 \| Y2M	x 3
	Posted 5 months ago
Mr. Colt, wonderful post, but you must understand that the vast majority of FPSB users are immature little children. It's sad, isn't it? Anyway, about the browser copyright thing: There have been cases in the past where people were arrested for allegedly having child pornography on their computers even though it may have only been a thumbnail from a site that could not have been prevented (4chan, anyone?). There were also some battles in court of whether or not anyone can be accused of that in those circumstances. Certainly there is no distribution or modification from such things. The person could not have known, either. I think that, if it came into court, it would either be considered personal use or an exception would be made. And no, I'm not saying that child porn is copyrighted work, I'm just saying that this sort of thing has been brought up in court. Any supposed copyright infringement would meet the same fate. Now, thankfully for tom, the DMCA creates a safe harbor for Online Service Providers (OSPs, such as FPSB). tom cannot be held responsible. However, I would have no problem holding these "modders" responsible. You, UnitedAdmins WT, and I know that this is illegal. The problem is there's no way to educate these kids. They do as they please and attempt to justify everything with the stupidest remarks you've ever heard. So, basically, everyone but the OSP will be screwed over and I don't care. I never liked this community anyway. Oh, by the way, copyright law sucks. The sad truth is the copyright holder has all the power and they actually have the right to sue anyone they want if they even think their work is being misused. (Vanilla Ice vs. MC Hammer, anyone?) Posted by -bastard- I'm glad as long as no one takes credit for work I have done, notifies me before sharing it, and as long as it clearly says I'm the original creator. In that case, you may want to right a license, such as a README file, although I think the preferred name now is COPYING. What you described is a lot like the original BSD license, which had a sort of advertising clause. It said something along the lines of "You can do whatever you want as long as you credit U.C. Berkely as the creator." It's much easier than having everyone contact you, don't you think?
(this.getTitle() == "programmer" \|\| this.getTitle() == "hacker") ? this.setStatus(FLATTERED) : this.setStatus(INSULTED);
	. Yes, you may buy my uber, just post. \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Yes, ofcourse. But it's kind of intresting to see if a person can inprove your work in some way. So I think it's nice if people at least notify me if they make changes to my work. And after all, not many people contacts a guy (me) who makes GUIs (radars, scopes, misc. sprites, etc...).

	IRI$H WARRI0R . I Never Back Down \| Y2M	x 1
	Posted 5 months ago
Pros: a brilliant point that made me think for a while Cons: none Improvements: none Notes: probably the best thread that actualy made a point.

	Sargon the Great . Banned \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
sniff that was beautiful
Banned
	. I'm special. \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
That last part on web browsers is just complete nonsense! But if its true... I could accuse everybody of copy right of earth, since after all... we do use all of its resources.

	UnitedAdmins WT . Bananite \| Y2M	x 1
	Posted 5 months ago
Thanks for these great responses here, and now time for some replies. @ B A S T A R D: Thanks for your reply, it made me realise that there are other people out there, who also don't want to worry about all the red tape that comes with copyright, but do want their work to be recognised. @ Mr.Colt: What a great reply, thanks for the vote of 10/10, to be honest, I wasn't sure if this thread would be deleted, or flamed, but reading your response made it worth while posting. @ Degenerate_NZ: Most noobies are just satisfied with the fact that they actually managed to make and publish their website, and don't appear to understand that whatever is done to the site to prevent people taking content, it's still possible to do so. When a site goes up, designed by an experienced webmaster however, they are often aware that the content is pretty much public domain, which is why website security is big business, for sites that want to keep stuff available online for individual customers, but away from prying eyes. @ Judo: Here's a person who knows what they're talking about, great post, lots of information that kept me hunting for more, to be able to present my case. Thanks :) @ Zippit: It certainly is true. For example: In Windows running Internet Explorer, you would point your browser to go to FPSBanana.com and your browser would then make a "GET" request to the server.. example "GET /index.php HTTP/1.1" and then the FPSB server would acknowledge your browsers request, swap some details (your browser type, ip, date and more, would go into the server logs) and your browser would then COPY the index.php page to your "Temporary Internet Files" folder on your computer. Almost immediately, the graphical section of the browser would show the page of the cached filed in the temporary internet files folder, into the web browsers window, and if no page was found, it would show a coded-in page in case of error (typically a 404 error page). For more indepth iformation, try here. http://cnx.org/content/m12851/latest/ And now on with my post. It would be interesting to see how FPSB protects it's authors from copyright infringement, but also allowing those who WANT to see their work upgraded / altered / changed whilst keeping credits to original author, and to the author of the adapted / edited /changed / altered work. Is there an on-site policy that caters for this? If so, could someone link me ? If not, do you think that FPSB needs one ? Or has it done fine without one so far ? If I submit work, and someone breaches my copyright, how do I report it ? If I submit work, and allow people to use it any way they like, how do I do this ? All help greatly appreciated.
Bananite
	. If outnumbered, what do you call for? \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
If I remember rightly, you could place your work under a creative commons license, much like on deviantart, where people would easily be able to see how to use (or not use as it may be) you work by providing a simple image and/or link (it's been a long time since I've viewed deviantart for anything more than desktop backgrounds so I can't give exact information on it sorry). I believe a good idea would be to utilise this on Fpsb somehow, possible allowing a search to items that can be used as long as the author is contributed to somehow. Take a look here @ CreativeCommons.org. It is entirely free to use what they create, they are a non-profit organisation and IMO a good one at that. And in answer to your reporting question, it's a simple matter of asking a moderator/admin who can remove the piece from Fpsb, or withholding it from release until something is done. As previously mentioned, it's nice to have a thread that isn't some, well, crap with not an ounce of effort whatsoever and it is definately something that was a pleasure to read instead of a pain.

	: Cake Or Death? \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Those interested. FPSB: DMCA Policy

	UnitedAdmins WT . Bananite \| Y2M	x 1
	Posted 5 months ago
@ Shaydee: Thanks for the reminder about the creative commons license, I have scratched the surface with this before, but will gladly review it for updates, and to refresh my knowledge, to see if it will help against the case I am trying to make. @ LOST: Thanks for your link to the DMCA, I have spent some time reading it, and section 512. Although I haven't finished reading it yet, I haven't found anything that links to my case regarding copyright protection of websites, and caching, from a client (viewers), point of view, and the closest I got to it, was this. ---- QUOTE http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512 ---- (b) System Caching.— (1) Limitation on liability. — A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the intermediate and temporary storage of material on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider in a case in which — etc.. etc... ----- END QUOTE ------------------------------------------------------------ Dissapointingly, this looks at the copyright protection from an Online Service Providers point of view, rather than a browser-users point of view. Could it be that my point isn't covered in the DMCA ? We shall have to see, because, if it isn't covered, and browser-users all around the globe are (COPYING) caching pages, WITHOUT PERMISSION of the website owners, and then their browsers USE that cache to show the website to users, then potentially people around the world, are getting away with Copyright theft all the time, and it pretty much negates the whole point of copyrights in the first place, if this is happening. While on this subject, if viewing a website you haven't created, DOES break the copyright act, I tell you now, I refuse point blank, to give my name, address, and more details for every webpage I visit. Oh, and this bit made me laugh.... ---- QUOTE http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512 ---- (4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and ----- END QUOTE ------------------------------------------------------------ Does this mean that FPSB is not allowed to make backups of the site ? Technically this could mean.. no backups, no R.A.I.D. mirror, no nothing... that's scary stuff for FPSB... what happens if the site goes down ? Everyone has to re-post all their stuff ? pfft. Lastly... the DMCA is a US document... However, I am a user posting from the UK, and while I understand that U.S. Citizens have to comply with U.S. Law, (due to the fact that the hosting of this site is based in Georgia), does this mean that I don't ? Whatever the technicallities of the DMCA, professional ettiquette was observed by my friend, and then allegedly misused by the author to destroy the agreement, leaving my friend with a very bitter taste in his mouth. Because of this, he no longer feels welcome here, and the U-turn decision by the original author, and the agreement they had together was certainly not a good start to his FPSB experience. I have considered suggesting that he appeals, but he doesn't seem interested in even visiting here, let alone posting material again. He is not pleased that this has happened, but I appreciate the chance to speak up for him, and the chance to enlighten a few of you as to a few of the "grey areas" of Copyright Law. Thankyou for reading, and thankyou for your comments too.
Bananite
	. \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Lol, whats UA. I never heard of it.

	: BAD WOLF \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Posted by UnitedAdmins WT Dissapointingly, this looks at the copyright protection from an Online Service Providers point of view, rather than a browser-users point of view. Could it be that my point isn't covered in the DMCA ? We shall have to see, because, if it isn't covered, and browser-users all around the globe are (COPYING) caching pages, WITHOUT PERMISSION of the website owners, and then their browsers USE that cache to show the website to users, then potentially people around the world, are getting away with Copyright theft all the time, and it pretty much negates the whole point of copyrights in the first place, if this is happening. While on this subject, if viewing a website you haven't created, DOES break the copyright act, I tell you now, I refuse point blank, to give my name, address, and more details for every webpage I visit. By putting a page on the internet, you are implying that you give your consent that the page be downloaded and stored in cache to be rendered. Oh, and this bit made me laugh.... ---- QUOTE http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512 ---- (4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and ----- END QUOTE ------------------------------------------------------------ Does this mean that FPSB is not allowed to make backups of the site ? Technically this could mean.. no backups, no R.A.I.D. mirror, no nothing... that's scary stuff for FPSB... what happens if the site goes down ? Everyone has to re-post all their stuff ? pfft. That applies specifically to data in transit, not to the data in general. This section is aimed at ISPs rather than the OSPs that the Safe Harbor section is aimed at and as such has no bearing on what FPSB can do with content. Lastly... the DMCA is a US document... However, I am a user posting from the UK, and while I understand that U.S. Citizens have to comply with U.S. Law, (due to the fact that the hosting of this site is based in Georgia), does this mean that I don't ? How copyright laws from other countries apply to you as a person living in your country depends on the treaties your country has with other countries in regards to copyright law.

	-Whitechapel- . Pull the trigger bitch! \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Posted by UnitedAdmins WT You have therefore COPIED and USED that page ... WITHOUT PERMISSION !. effectively committing an act of copyright theft. I think that you have the permission, otherwise the site would be password-protected. Maybe.
Pull the trigger bitch!
	. Serious Business \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
Posted by Judo Deleted unneeded post containing for this quote. Posted by -bastard- I'm glad as long as no one takes credit for work I have done, notifies me before sharing it, and as long as it clearly says I'm the original creator. In that case, you may want to right a license, such as a README file, although I think the preferred name now is COPYING. What you described is a lot like the original BSD license, which had a sort of advertising clause. It said something along the lines of "You can do whatever you want as long as you credit U.C. Berkely as the creator." It's much easier than having everyone contact you, don't you think? Well, I would prefer to have someone to contact me, or as you say just credit the original author. But! I don't like to have to search for all releases containing me in the credits. I would much more prefer to have a system that send you an event message about a release containing you in the credits.

	UnitedAdmins WT . Bananite \| Y2M	x 0
	Posted 5 months ago
@ BAD WOLF: ---- QUOTE ---- By putting a page on the internet, you are implying that you give your consent that the page be downloaded and stored in cache to be rendered. ----- END QUOTE ------------------------------------------------------------ If that's true, why do people copyright their pages, implying they don't want others to copy their work, then upload it to the internet, allowing people to break copyright laws, using the browser caching method I have already described. Also... I read in the FPSB rules, and DMCA, that storage of copyrighted materials original posted on the FPSB server, should NOT be allowed to be stored elsewhere, and readily downloadable without permission. YET, people come here all the time, download copyrighted maps, and upload them to their servers, STORING them in a maps directory, and then adding them to the map rotation with map downloading enabled (sv_downloads), or a link to their webserver, (sv_downloadurl "http://path" ) allowing people to download copyrighted material, COPY it to their maps directory, and allow their program to USE it, without the authors permission. Am I to believe that mappers post their copyrighted maps on FPSB, and then, allow people to download it, store in their servers maps directory, to be distributed to other people ? Doesn't that defeat the whole object of the DMCA and the FPSB copyright rules...? But hey, I'm not blaming authors, FPSB, the DMCA, for breaking copyright laws... But VALVes sv_downloads, and sv_downloadurl actually helps users break copyright law. Thousands of servers, are illegal, and .... if you want to run a games server without breaking the law, here's how. 1. use ONLY models, maps, etc.. that you make, and declare them public domain, so they are immuned against copyright laws. 2. Run your server in a vanilla configuration, (without custom maps, skins, etc...) 3. Organise a FULL agreement between the authors of copyrighted maps, to make their software public domain, and copyright free.... ... OR 4. Contact all authors, and ask them to follow a strict protocol, that doesn't allow breaking of agreements, and if said agreement is broken, a penalty should be bestowed.
Bananite

Assess Thread

This feature is unavailable because the page is locked

Stamps

Good Idea & Well Written

[+] Show all stamps (4)

StampIt

Is this thread particularly good or bad in one or more areas? Stamp it!
This feature is unavailable because the page is locked

Share It!

Get HTML Code

Get BBCode

Tell a Friend

Posters Summary

Posts	Thumbs	Member
3 #3646281 #3642833 #3641762	x 2	UnitedAdmins WT
2 #3638638 #3637092	-	-bastard-
1 #3641822	-	Lost
1 #3641788	-	Shaydee
1 #3643635	-	Crazypip666
1 #3644094	-	Loyen_
1 #3643656	-	-Whitechapel-
1 #3642883	-	spike455
1 #3638878	-	Zippit
1 #3637197	-	Be[NZ]ine.
1 #3637152	x 7	Mr. Colt
1 #3637213	-	Shadowex3
1 #3638446	x 3	Judo
1 #3638830	x 1	IRI$H WARRI0R
1 #3638843	-	Sargon the Great

Thread Stats on UnitedAdmins WT .

Submissions: 1

Total Views: 1,164

Total Feedback: 18 posts

Average Rating: 10/10

Unrated Threads: 0

Total Favs: 0

First Submission: 5 months ago

Latest Submission: 5 months ago

Favorite Category: STEAM > Other/Misc (1 threads)

Save It

Add to del.icio.us

This feature is unavailable because the page is locked